Not Knowing Your Blind Spots Leads to Self-Sabotage – Paul Glover
What do all great leaders have in common? One thing’s for sure, they certainly don’t micromanage their employees. Quite the contrary, great leaders inspire trust and create a clear path for people to follow. Great leaders are mentors, coaches, mediators. Our today’s guest helps good leaders become great and he’s here today to share his wisdom.
Paul Glover is an executive coach who helps leaders to accomplish higher levels of performance by assisting them to recognize and achieve their potential. Also known as the No-B.S. Work Performance Coach, Paul is the go-to person for individual leaders and leadership groups who want to improve their personal, organizational, and workforce performance. A fun fact about Paul is that he calls himself a “recovering lawyer” after spending 30 years as an employment law attorney – we’ll definitely get more into that in this episode. Paul is also a published author. In his book called Workquake, he shares proven strategies and tips for thriving in the Knowledge Economy.
In this episode of the Think Business With Tyler podcast, we discuss why you eventually become who you spend time with and Paul opens up about the most challenging period in his life. We also get into the importance of receiving feedback as an entrepreneur, why the first step to self-growth is facing yourself, and how to communicate your vision to your employees.
If you want to excel as a leader and achieve your full potential, you’re going to want to hear what Paul has to say. Tune into this episode to get some golden first-hand tips and strategies.
💡 Name: Paul Glover
💡 What he does: He is an executive coach who works with individual leaders and leadership groups to accomplish higher levels of performance by assisting them to recognize and achieve their potential.
💡 Noteworthy: Paul was a trial lawyer for 30 years. He’s the author of Workquake™, a book dedicated to those in the work environment seeking to not only survive but also to thrive in the Knowledge Economy.
💡 Key Quote: “Nobody wants to be managed. Let’s get rid of that term. If all you’re doing is managing, what you’re telling people is, as long as I can control you, I’m good with our relationship. […] We need to be leading, we need to be facilitating, we need to be coaching, we need to be mediating.”
💡 Where to find Paul: LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram
You are who you associate with. Paul had to learn this the hard way – you eventually become just like the people you surround yourself with. As a court lawyer, he was constantly exposed to too many bad guys which ultimately led him to make some bad choices. But after a long period of self-reflection, Paul was able to learn from his mistakes and grow even more as a professional mentor. “I tell people in the coaching process, you need to believe that you will be like people you associate with whether you like it or not. It is inevitable that if you surround yourself with bad people, with toxic people, over a period of time, you’re going to become toxic. And that’s what I did. And I was then given opportunities to generate illicit income. And you can convince yourself very quickly that this is okay. It’s amazing how we rationalize. Yeah, I rationalized myself into doing exactly that.”
You need to face yourself in order to grow. The hardest thing you inevitably have to do as an entrepreneur is to face yourself. Discover your blind spots and be completely honest. Once you finally do that, you will be able to break the pattern of self-sabotage and become more successful. “That takes a conscious awareness, and then the commitment to do the hard thing and that is face yourself. Most people aren’t capable of doing that. And most business leaders aren’t either. The hardest person for me to coach is someone who’s successful. But I also tell them, ‘Look, you came to me for a reason. And my reputation is well known. So you came to me because there’s something that has to be addressed in the way you live your life or performance as a leader. But are you willing to commit to the truth, and then the hard work necessary to change? Because it’s hard, believe me, to walk through the process. That’s why I’m really good at what I do. Because I’ve been there.”
Feedback is a gift. Feedback is key to professional growth, and the same goes for business owners. Unfortunately, due to their position of power, business owners rarely receive honest feedback from the people they work with. That’s why it’s important to aim to develop an honest and safe environment in the workplace and allow everyone to share feedback. “If you’re not providing psychological safety for your workforce so that they feel you trust them enough to tell you the truth and isn’t that a weird thing that they want to tell me the truth, but they don’t feel safe doing it? Why would you think anyone is going to stay there given any other opportunity? 66% are out immediately because guess what, all you have with them is a transaction, you don’t have a relationship, and you’re paying them for time and nothing else, which is stupid. That concept is so industrial age.”
Do you know your purpose? This is the question that every business owner should ask themselves at one point. Do you and your employees know your company’s purpose? If the answer is anything but a firm yes, you have some work to do. Companies need to know, understand and communicate their higher purpose in everything they do. “I believe that everyone needs to sit down and spend the time to reflect on what their purposes and they need to write it down and then they need to post it where you see it every day so that you live your purpose. If you can’t figure that out, you are not going to be satisfied with your professional life. You may make enough money, but you’re not going to have anything other than that, because your purpose has got to guide you through your professional life and hopefully in your personal life.”
“Even when I was in prison, my life was better than theirs. The struggle that they had to go through to survive was based on the mistakes that I made and what I had cost them. And that realization finally got through to me that instead of thinking about myself, I needed to think about others and I needed to think about my family. […] At some point, I said, there’s a problem here that I need to address so that I’m not coming back. Because if I don’t address who I am, I am going to come back. And at that point, the process of self-awareness started to kick in.”
“I go with the three A’s: attraction, attention, appreciation. In any relationship, those are the three areas that matter. Now, attraction has nothing to do with how good you look, by the way. It has to do with positive energy and the authenticity that you bring as a leader. And if your company does not resonate with that same level of positivity and energy, then you are you don’t have the right people in leadership positions.”
“I believe that feedback is a gift. And feedback is truly the best gift you can get. Why don’t you create a safe environment for the people who are doing the work to tell you how you can be better?”
“Nobody wants to be managed. Let’s get rid of that term. If all you’re doing is managing, what you’re telling people is, as long as I can control you, I’m good with our relationship. […] We need to be leading, we need to be facilitating, we need to be coaching, we need to be mediating.”
“We exist to crane and develop people so they will meet their potential and if it’s not here, it’s okay. From onboarding process, introduce them to the fact that you care enough about them to do this for them and you know what you get back? Engagement then comes productivity and profit.”
“Performance matters, and therefore performance should be rewarded.”
“Every boss believes they’re a great communicator. And that’s because they believe in the power of telepathy. They believe that they think it, you hear it. What always comes out inevitably is you suck as a communicator, you are so unclear, we have to ask each other after a meeting what you said, consensus, we decide that was the message.”
WorkQuake: Making the Seismic Shift to a “Knowledge Economy”
It’s Your Ship: Management Techniques from the Best Damn Ship in the Navy
Email Paul to get a free copy of his book at firstname.lastname@example.org
FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Paul Glover 0:00
The odds of my coming back if I didn’t change who I was, was large. And so from that period on, I started to do the exploration necessary to do two things. First, I needed to discover my blind spots. And obviously, we don’t often have someone we can trust to point them out to us. So we live with them. And what that does is it causes us to engage in self sabotage. And we develop a pattern of self sabotage that will continue as a pattern until we break. And that takes a conscious awareness, and then the commitment to do the hard day. And that is face yourself. Most people aren’t capable of doing that, and most business leaders aren’t either.
Welcome to think business with Tyler sharing our methods and strategies for success. Join in on our conversations with business owners. As we highlight their triumphs and detail how they overcame the challenges they faced while continuing to grow and scale their business. It’s time to think life think success and think business with your host Tyler Martin.
Tyler Martin 1:11
Okay, Team strap in, we got a fun one. Today, our guests is Paul Glover. Paul is known as the no BS work performance coach. Paul is the go to person for individual leaders and leadership groups who want to improve their personal, organizational and Workforce Performance. A fun fact about Paul is he calls himself a recovering trial lawyer. After spending 30 years as an attorney. We’ll definitely get more into that in this episode. Paul is also a published author of workweek. In the book he shares proven strategies and tips for thriving in the knowledge economy. In this episode, we chat about why you need to pay attention to who you surround yourself with, and how Paul had learned this lesson the hard way, which included prison time, how to face yourself as an entrepreneur, and commit to your own truth, the undeniable power of feedback, particularly for business owners and entrepreneurs, and the importance of knowing your purpose, and why you need to learn how to communicate it to your employees. It was a blast talking with Paul, what I particularly liked about this episode is Paul’s ability to inspire with his very unique, straightforward and humorous approach. Let’s jump into our discussion with Paul. Hey, Paul, thanks so much for being on the think business with Tyler podcast show. How are you doing today?
Paul Glover 2:33
No, Tyler, I’m doing well. And thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to both you and your audience. It’s a privilege.
Tyler Martin 2:40
Yeah. Well, we’re honored to have you. I’m super excited. I’d love to start with a little bit about your career. And what you’re doing now,
Paul Glover 2:48
as my bio says, I’m an executive coach. And I’ve developed a national practice in a couple of industries, both manufacturing and industrial distribution, it really suits my personality. And as we had talked a little bit earlier, you would never want me as your life coach, but as a performance coach, which is how I build myself that no BS, workplace performance coach, I actually am very effective, but I am an acquired taste
Tyler Martin 3:17
it well, let’s go right into that because you’re a 30 year trial lawyer. So I think we’re starting to set the stage to that acquired taste. What is the Life Day in the Life of a trial lawyer? Like, what’s that personality? Like? What are you facing over those 30 years, I’d love to hear a little bit about that world.
Paul Glover 3:34
I went to law school and make some determinations early on that there were things that I just would not do. I will not do wills and estates. I don’t want to do divorce law. What I found most intriguing was trial work. And I was a practicing trial attorney and a federal court. So a little bit higher than state court. Never did criminal law, even though I should have. But I looked at it. And I spent a large portion of my law school education, not going to class. I actually went to the Federal Court building and I watched trials, because I was like, if I’m going to do this, I need to first obviously by watching you start to get a feel. This resonates with me. I think I could do this. I really want to do this. I am so so I often described it. I know that trial lawyers hate it when I’m dishonest about it. I looked at it as hand to hand combat with rules. Alright, the judges the referee, I’ve got an audience. It’s called the jury. And so it’s performance art, but it’s also hand to hand combat. Why? Well, the other side obviously has a position they’re trying to prevail upon, and my client has a position that we’re trying to prevail upon, and I am their champion. Most of the time, I would never put my client on the stand where they belong. First they actually reveal who they are. And most of the time, the jury might not like that. So So I was a representative there champion in the, in the conflict, the dispute. And my experience with trial law, I enjoyed the hell out of the trial, I hated the amount of preparation that I had to go through in determining, we’re ready to go to trial. First, because I was a trial lawyer, I did not take cases that I didn’t have them at the beginning, the issue would be some other lawyer would have the case. And when they finally got to the point of it wasn’t going to be resolved, therefore it was going to go to trial, that’s when I would be contacted. So the client was coming to me to someone else. And by the way, everybody has a specialty trial lawyers is a specialty. And so I would get the client as they were, all of the depositions had been done the discovery. And so I knew what the case was when I when I got it. But of course, I needed to then mold the client into an acceptable version for the jury. And so that that was said that, that took time because I never didn’t know when the client might be forced to take the stand. So the reality was, every hour in court, at least four hours of preparation before a court. Wow. So you would go through a maybe a four hour period during the day of being at trial, and you would immediately leave trial. And you would go back to your office and you would prep for the next day for probably eight to 12 hours. Actually, when I would go on trial. Most of my trials would last four to six weeks. They were complicated. And I would actually I lived in the suburbs, but I would get a room downtown. I never went on.
Tyler Martin 6:41
Wow. I do have a question is does that take its toll on you. Just being like in war every day of your life essentially, or at least the vast majority?
Paul Glover 6:51
I absolutely. Yeah. an adrenaline junkie. Yeah, there you have to be an adrenaline junkie. By the way. The incidence of drug and alcohol abuse among trial lawyers is huge. The only profession that’s worse is dentists. Because they’re constantly looking into someone’s mouth who ate stuff. So calories aren’t that bad. But But yeah, we were Yeah, to be an adrenaline junkie, it was a very select club. And yes, you have to be very competitive and competitive and have a confrontational approach. Yeah, does take a toll on you and mold you, and not in a good way.
Tyler Martin 7:29
And I imagine I imagine that it’s hard also to draw that line between your work life and your home life. Because all day long, you’re in this, you know, frictional type situation. And then somehow, I mean, you almost have to be non human to cut the line and go, Okay, now I’m going to be a non confrontational person in my personal life. But that’s probably not realistic. No,
Paul Glover 7:49
it isn’t. And it cost me my first my first wife, and I have no relationship ended because of my profession. And yeah, it is extraordinarily difficult. It’s my what my bio says recovering lawyer. And as my wife said to me, when I stopped practicing law, she said, You know, it’s good thing, you’ve stopped practicing law, but you’re still an asshole. So the reality was that you you can’t not be that the training that goes into becoming a trial lawyer, and then the actual practicing of the craft, it molds you to think a certain way, and to act a certain way. And you’re right, you have to actively decompress. And at some point, get it, get it out of your system, but very difficult to do.
Tyler Martin 8:34
Yeah, that’s fascinating. Hey, I want to dig into another area, you also have openly shared that you’re an ex felon. And I’d love to know the story behind that what got you into that spot? And and then, you know, how did you get to where you’re at today in terms of getting out of it? Well,
Paul Glover 8:51
it’s just the profession that I was earned. And the people that I represented, allowed me to be exposed to, too bad guys. And I wanted to be a bad guy. Really? Did I the lifestyle and my personality made me want to be like that. I never went that far. But the reality is that I expose myself to that. And I tell people in the coaching process, you need to believe that you will be like people you associate with whether you like it or not. It is inevitable that if you surround yourself with bad people with toxic people, over a period of time, you are going to become toxic. And that’s what I did. And I was then given opportunities to generate illicit income. And you can convince yourself very quickly that this is okay. It’s amazing how we rationalize, yeah, I rationalize myself into doing exactly that. So I was indicted on 22 counts of white collar crimes. including embezzlements taking kickbacks and intimidating government witnesses and went to trial had to trials in federal court and was found guilty and sentenced to seven years in federal prison camp. But it was i and in detail you they the extent of, of I call it Hubris. Hubris is the amount of pride you have in yourself. I stood in front of the judge at sentencing. And this was a judge that I had practiced in front of. And they offer what’s called in the set federal sentencing guidelines called an acceptance of responsibility reduction in sentence. Now, I’d already been found guilty, and I knew I was going to prison. And my lawyers were very clear that it was going to be at least seven years. And I couldn’t have 18 months knocked off of my sense, if I in open court said, I accept responsibility for my actions. And given that opportunity, I said, No,
Tyler Martin 11:05
that blows my mind. Because you know, the game like if anybody knows the game, you know it better than anyone else. It just kind of goes to show you. Yeah, it’s just it’s mind boggling. Honestly, I love your openness. My
Paul Glover 11:16
wife was my wife was my mind was boggled, believe that you are such a jerk. She said, You know, I’ve taken 18 months of our life away. And I could not do it. I told her so I will not do that. And and it had nothing to do. I’d already been found guilty as a question here. And my inability to accept responsibility for my own actions, stayed with me for two years of incarceration. I spent two years of incarceration, grieving my loss profession because I was never going to practice law. Again, they take your law license away, rightfully, I was prohibited from practicing law for 13 years in the sentencing. That’s how bad that the judge obviously, you don’t want to be a lawyer, this found guilty of this kind of stuff. Because system is as harsh on you as it can be. And so 13 years, that meant I entered prison when I was 50 years old, I knew I was never going to practice law again. I lost my profession, which I absolutely loved. I had taken the college funds of both my kids and spent them on a defense. Then after two trials still got me seven years of incarceration. And I was leaving my I was leaving my family for seven years to fend for themselves. So I went through two years of feeling regret, sorrow and loss. But that was not the overwhelming mindset, the overwhelming mindset was revenge. I wanted to get even with everyone that I blamed for causing me to be incarcerated. And over a period of two years, I finally started to feel that that that was not right, that I was responsible for putting myself in prison. And several things enlighten me first, my wife and family visited me every 30 days. And I was six hours away in a camp a prison camp. They drove down once a month to spend two days with me in a visiting room with 350 other inmates. That was our contact besides phone. And at some point I recognized that their life was had been made harder, because of me, even when I was in person by life was better than theirs. And that the struggle that they had to go through to survive, was based on the mistakes that I’ve made, what I had cost them. And the that realization finally got through to me that instead of thinking about myself, I needed to think about others. And I needed to think about my family. But I also saw the amount of recidivism. I ended for prison camp I had seven years was pretty long since I started off in the first year, I saw guys go home. And the second year, I saw the same guys come back. And that repeated itself for my entire plan. At some point I said, there’s a problem here that I need to address so that I’m not coming back. Because if I don’t address who I am, I am going to come back. And at that point, the the process of self awareness started to kick in. But it took two years of incarceration for me, I’m a slow learner. And I came to the realization that the damage I’ve done to my family and lost my profession, and the odds of my coming back if I didn’t change who I was, was large. And so from that period on I started to do the exploration necessary to do two things. First, I needed to discover my blind spots. And obviously, we don’t often have someone we can trust to point them out to us. So we live with them and and what that does is it causes cause us to engage in self sabotage. And we develop a pattern of self sabotage, that will continue as a pattern until we break. And that takes a conscious awareness, and then the commitment to do the hard thing. And that is face yourself. Most people aren’t capable of doing that. And most business leaders aren’t either. Why? Well, the hardest person for me to coach is someone who’s successful. But I also tell them, Look, you came to me for a reason. And you’re my reputation is well known. So I’m not all have code, you came to me because there’s something that has to be addressed in the way you live your life or perform as a leader. But are you willing to commit to the truth, and then the hard work necessary to change? Because it’s hard, believe me, it’s gone through the process. That’s why I’m really good at what I do. Because I’ve been there.
Tyler Martin 15:59
Yeah. If anybody knows about changing, you basically spent seven years I don’t know if you serve the whole sentence, but you spent seven years of learning how to basically transform yourself into being accountable and learning from your mistakes and going in a different direction, career wise, too. And it brings me to my last question, because you just brought up business leaders, you know, oftentimes, in my client base, and just business owners in general, finding employees retaining employees, hiring employees, especially right now is really challenging. What would you say to them? And a lot of times, I think it’s wrapped around their own leadership, what would you say to them? What’s your guidance in that area? And in thoughts?
Paul Glover 16:38
Well, at first, you’re absolutely correct. I am so intrigued by this concept of the great resignation. Yeah. Because it’s apparent to me as it should be apparent to everyone. That if you are looking at your current workforce, and the realization is 66% of your employees are not engaged. This Gallup doing these engagement surveys year after year, 66%, are not engaged in 17% of that 66 are actively disengaged. To me, that means they’re working against your organization. Now, let’s start off with that as our baseline and say, if I want engagement, which should include retention, what do I have to do? And I start off with a very basic situation here, if you’re not providing psychological safety for your workforce, so that they feel you trust them enough to tell you the truth? And isn’t that a weird thing that want to tell me the truth, but they don’t feel safe doing it? Why would you think anyone is going to stay there given any other opportunity? 66% are out immediately. Because guess what, all you have with them is a transaction, you don’t have a relationship, and you’re paying them for time and nothing else, which is stupid. That concept is so industrial age that I’m going to pay you for hours and not outcome is crazy to me. So when I look at what you have to do, to attract people, is first I believe, by the way, my concepts are very simple. I go with the three A’s attraction, attention, appreciation, in any relationship, those are the three areas that matter. Now attraction has not nothing to do with how good you look, by the way. And it has to do with the positive energy and the authenticity that you bring as a leader. And if your company does not resonate with that same level of positivity and energy, then you are you don’t have the right people in leadership positions. And if you don’t, you can’t keep or retain or attract talent, that nobody’s tolerating that. We had a as terrible as a pandemic. Yes, it is a test for leadership. And so if everybody’s leaving your company, you know whose fault that is yours, right? I’m blaming the fact they got additional unemployment compensation that is so much bullshit type stuff fooling ourselves here, right? There are leaving, you are not returning because of you and your organization. Oh, you want to give better accept the fact that psychological safety is missing from your organization, and you need created, you need to be willing to hear the truth about you and your organization, from the people who actually know the truth and want to share it but are afraid to I believe that feedback is a gift. And on the back is truly the best gift you can get. Why don’t you create a safe environment for the people who are doing the work to tell you how you can be better? Maybe that’s a long winded answer. And it’s simple because everybody’s looking for some weird secret here. There is no secret we We know what works. The problem is we don’t want to do it. We don’t trust. We don’t trust people. That’s why we want everybody back in the office, by the way, you can do all the arguments you want about, are you born productive? Are you not? The reality is we want you here, we could see you. And in fact, if you stay in your office, we’re gonna, we’re going to put spyware on your computer so we can watch you by your head, oh, oh, my God, what message are you sending?
Tyler Martin 20:31
It’s so confusing.
Paul Glover 20:34
I guarantee you that, that your employees are smarter than you think they are. Right? They’ll figure out how to get around this. That’s what happens. Most people operating in the office have come to accept the fact 75% of their time is totally wasted doing stuff that doesn’t matter. Right, the other 25% of time is the hard work that actually gets done. But the rest of the time, we’re totally distracted by meaningless meetings. And and co workers that should have been fired yesterday, call them the working dead, and they keep rolling around like a virus infecting everybody else, let’s get serious about what we want the workplace to do. And isn’t that about outcome, that’s all it is. And stop, stop trying to tell you’ve obviously get the but
Tyler Martin 21:20
I love it, you know, you you’ve like said so much in the last five minutes in terms of, you know, charged really good stuff in terms of, you know, just it’s outcome, it’s not the hours, it’s not, if we managed by outcome, the solution, you know, that would eliminate all this work from home work from office, even where I recently was at, you know, the organization was so confused, you know, before COVID, they were talking about working from home as a benefit. And then COVID hid, and obviously, a lot of people had to work from home, and then all sudden, it would became the priority one to get everybody back into the office. And it was just, you know, just I think sometimes leadership doesn’t really think about the bigger picture. And I get I think, basically, that’s what you’re saying they get lost. And they’re they’re blind. They have their own blind spots, I guess I would say,
Paul Glover 22:08
Oh, they are. And by the way, that that’s exactly right. There’s a blind spot here. And the concept that I hear that irritates me maybe more than any is how much more difficult it is to manage remote workers. First, nobody wants to be managed, right? Let’s get rid of that term. If all you’re doing is managing, then what you’re telling people is, as long as I can control you, I’m good with our relationship. But the first time you want some autonomy, I want I don’t want you here anymore. So let’s not worry about that. Well, what should we be doing? How about this, we need to be leading, we need to be facilitating, we need to be coaching, we need to be mediating. This does not have to be done in purpose. Hey are in person if you think that that makes the difference? That makes it easier, then you don’t have the right skill set.
Tyler Martin 22:58
Right. Okay. So let me shift gears in your book work quake, which I love, by the way, great book, you have a quote in the book and it says, come to my company, so I can help you leave it. I just love that quote. Can you talk about it?
Paul Glover 23:13
Oh, absolutely. It’s always interested, as you talk to you talk to employers about look, I divide things into training and development. Training is I want you to get better at your current job. So I’m going to give you whatever skill sets and information you need and resources, so you get better performance, because I want better performance. And by the way, you should want to be a better performance. So I’m going to do that. But the second part about this is developing, I want you to be developing for your next job. And one of the arguments that I get is, well, if I train them, then they’re going to go find a better job. And I’m like, yeah, and by the way, if you don’t train them, you’re not getting the increased performance that you need to be a high performing company. So I say, come to my company, and I’m going to give you the training and development that you need for your not only to do better here, but for your next job. And if you go I’m okay with that. By the way, am I going to try to keep you? Yes, I am. I’m going to try to convince you not to leave. But I want you to know that if you find something better for you, I want you to leave. And I want to prepare you for that journey. By the way. There’s a great turning the boomerang employee, the one that leaves and comes back because they go out and they try whatever they wanted to try. It’s a little bit different. But they then realize I think I can now come back around, use my experience and a culture and in an organization that I valued, because you know why they prepared me for this step. And they come back welcome. And that’s the deal. Why get upset with someone who says Gotta leave. If they’re the working dead have cake. Everybody should have cake. If it’s a good employee, a core employee, I would like to know why. share that information with me so that I can get make my organization better. But I want to tell you that first, you’re welcome back anytime.
Tyler Martin 25:19
This is something that really organizationally you have to do, all the way through the process, like you have to be when you’re helping someone grow. And correct me if I’m wrong, you have to be telling them, Hey, someday, it may come to a point where you want to take the next step. And that may not be us. I’m okay with that. But it’s a whole kind of philosophy all the way through, right? You don’t just do it at the end and say, you know, hey, if you want to come back, the door is open. And you kind of lead them through that. Is that correct? Culturally?
Paul Glover 25:46
Absolutely. And by the way I get I’m a Research junkie. And there is no question that millennials and Gen Z’s one of the things that continually say is I want to be developed, I don’t want and and so do you hear that message? Because either either you don’t hear it, which means, you know, get your hearing tested, but but believe them and why would you not believe what they’re telling you? So guess what, make that a part of who your organization is, we exist to crane and develop people so they will meet their potential. And if it’s not here, it’s okay. From onboarding process. Introduce them to the fact that you care enough about them to do this for them. And you know, what you get back engagement becomes productivity and profit. If you’re
a business owner, feeling stuck in your business overwhelmed, responsible for everything that happens and working long hours, Tyler helps his clients develop processes, hire high performing team members, and better understand their financial metrics and numbers to allow for a more predictable, less hands on business. To schedule a free no pressure consultation, head to think tyler.com and click the Meeting button. Tyler would love to see if he can help you work on your business, not in your business. schedule a consultation today at Think tyler.com Think life think success, think business,
Paul Glover 27:09
from onboarding process, introduce them to the fact that you care enough about them to do this for them. And you know, what you get back engagement becomes productivity and profit.
Tyler Martin 27:22
So switching gears still on your book, but a different part. There was a scooter company called Bird. And you referenced them in the book. And I just I just love this part of the book, it said your quote said it felt like a black mirror episode. It was a case study in poor leadership. Can you share with us that story I it’s just awesome story. But hard to believe, actually,
Paul Glover 27:41
thank you for inviting me because Byrd was a scooter business, I think they may have gone bankrupt God if not. But regardless, they decided they were going to have to downsize it. And by the way employees understand when you have to downsize something, they recognize reality, they may not like it. So of course, Burt decided you’re going to downsize I think they had 600 employees total 400 are going to be downsized. And of course the the company decides the most humane way to do this is over a Zoom meeting, without announcing in advance what it’s about. So these 400 people were invited to a Zoom meeting, they assume that the leader of the company is going to talk to them about what’s going to happen next. And instead they get this disembodied voice that comes over the Zoom meeting and says, Oh, by the way, you’re all fired. Screw you. But that’s how I interpreted the message. Did you have any interaction? No to talk about helping you get another job? No. And I was like, and in fact, if I’m not mistaken, at the end of that, the announcement continued and said, By the way, this was a huge room that they invited people to, they said, outside the door is a cardboard banker’s box with all of your desk material in it, it’s labeled with your name on it was like, wow, you know, hey, I’m definitely gonna try to come back to this company. If they stay a business. Could you get a white and I said it in for those who are familiar with black bear on Netflix. It is surreal that this organization thought this was the way to do this.
Tyler Martin 29:20
Yeah, I do love that show. I one thing they did do, you got to applaud them. They mark the box with names. Now they could have given you a number and said Your number seven. So at least at least they took the time to write out the name.
Paul Glover 29:31
Tom, Tom, you obviously are an optimist. You know, I tell people, you can be an optimist or a pessimist or you can be me a realist. So this year, yeah, it was better than a number but just barely.
Tyler Martin 29:45
Right, right. Hey, another part of your book that I love. You said you might not be running a business in a traditional sense, but you are certainly running the business of you. And then you go on to talk about an entrepreneurs mindset. Can we talk about that a little bit? What is the entrepreneurs mindset Why is that important?
Paul Glover 30:01
So, my content, my concept that I talked about in the book is that every company needs to be striving to get to self directed work teams, that takes the concept of leadership, and it puts it within the the members of the team. And that changes the person’s mind when they’re in control, when they have autonomy over their own work. Because they suddenly look at it differently. It’s that it’s the ultimate buy in me, individual entrepreneurs, so are you. And we look at our business with commitment and passion and enthusiasm, that the normal person in a job doesn’t. But I look at that, and I go, that’s all about control and autonomy. So for them to gain arm our mindset about, I’m committed, by the way, engagement is cool, self directed work teams about commitment. And it’s about commitment to the vision of the organization you belong to, because you make it yours. And we talk about purpose a lot. This is where purpose actually resides in the ability of the person who has a value set to align their values with the value of the organization. And this only happens when I believe that I am a meaningful part of that organization. And to me, that’s the entrepreneurial mindset. Why? Because I’m going to be as innovative as possible to do this job the best way possible, so that the company and I both share, we actually go from being an employee to a partner directed work teams are all about that. There. They are exactly what they say, the the members of that team, the team members are committed to the goal. Now they don’t set the goal. I mean, obviously, the organization says, Here’s what we have to have you do. But but it’s kind of like saying I’m now a freelancer. Because, again, if you give my team as a self directed team, a project, do you really care how we get it done, as long as we get it done within the context of the line. And obviously, don’t do anything illegal, or buy or spend too much money. I mean, there’s always a budget, but then then just let people do it. And once again, if you love the outcome, they have benefited and you’ve benefited. To me, it’s it’s how you get to the next level of an organizational empire. It’s just just the way you got to move it.
Tyler Martin 32:27
I want to as we close on talking about your book, what was the experience of writing a book? Like was it a great experience? Was it a lot, a lot of hard work worth it at the end, um, I have aspirations someday writing, it was
Paul Glover 32:39
a terrible experience. I absolutely, as you can tell, I could talk for hours and enjoy myself doing it, especially when we get someone that I could interact with writing is a solitary, terrible experience. And by the way, I was even made worse by the fact that I was a lawyer, because I would often be asked to then take a case of was lost or if it was not, if it was challenged on appeal on to the next step. And that’s that is a brief writing process, because the trial has already occurred, and you’re asking the appellate court to take a look at the trial. So that required writing briefs and and that require by the way, they the judicial system is not into creative writing. They watch it you know, there’s a shell dragnet. I don’t probably too, too too far back in history, but but the sergeant there Sergeant Friday, whatever he was faced with someone who was having an emotional breakdown, his response was just the facts. That was brief, right? So when I said, and by the way, I was compelled to write a book, my wife said, biggest ego tramp ever writing a book. And I said, I can’t help it. I’ve got things that I need to say. And I say it every day, in my practice, in my coaching practice, I want to commit to writing. So I started the painful process of writing. And I actually got to 300 pages. And I turned it over to the editor. And the editor said, it’s not long enough. I said, Of course, it’s long enough 300 pages. He said, by the time I get to edit a you need to recognize that it’s going to be a lot Sure. He said, By the way, you sound like a robot. He said, Do you have a personality that you can put into this book? So I had to go back in the book and actually try to insert some humanity into it, painful experience. But at the end of that rewrite, I was still 50 pages short. And he said I need another 50 pages. I said I don’t think I have it in me so I’m not gonna You won’t publish the book that so like, I decided I don’t have a choice. And so I contacted three writing coaches. And my my Converse dialogue with them was I don’t want you to criticize my writing. I don’t When you think about my writing, what I need is 54 pages. And Anthony said, Well, if I can’t help you become a better writer, then I’m not interested, fine. I’m gonna pay you, but not going to pay you for that. The second one was in maybe, and I was like, Well, no, you have to be engaged and not the third one was like, well tell me what you want to do here. So I want 50 pages, I need to do 50 pages and 50 days, I got to do a page today. Now that may sound like a very reasonable goal. But it wasn’t it just was not I was done writing. And I still had to do 50 pages. And so my deal was, well, I’m going to pay you a flat fee just for being engaged with this. But my deal is that for every day, I send you a page. And if I don’t send you a page, I write to it for $100
Tyler Martin 35:50
a penalty, basically, yeah, of course, I self
Paul Glover 35:53
imposed penalty. said, Well, you that means you want me to read the page, and hopefully giving you a quick No, I don’t want you to read the page. And I certainly don’t want to get your opinion. I said, Oh care at this point. She was like, Well, that could be insulting. I said you want to check and see. All right. So with that as the motivator to show you that I still remain sometimes a dick. I would not pay that $100 paid $100 would have killed me just that not financially, but philosophically. So I wrote it every day a page. And I would wait until 1159 Pa. And that’s it said, and they still messing said you don’t get a check today. They used to say she earned her she earned her buddy. But that’s how painful it was. And now I am preparing to write a second book a seagull. And my wife was like glutton for punishment just can’t help yourself.
Tyler Martin 36:53
I was chuckling as you’re explaining the pain and the grief and doing this. Because in your book, you say this is a book this kind of need to be updated. And I just chuckled because I’m like, okay, that adds up. And then I’m also laughing because your fractional, you know, Trial Lawyer days. You still have that in Yeah, I mean with do it with your coach. I’m curious, though, on that $100 penalty? Is that a type of system that you you would use with clients? Do you ever do that? Or should business owners be using a penalty system? If that’s what they need to get them over the hump?
Paul Glover 37:26
Well, let me let me be clear about this. I believe that that performance matters, and therefore performance should be rewarded. Just to give you if you’re not committed. Look, I find it interesting that a lot of people who coach are not committed to the coaching process that they preach. Now mine is about outcome and performance. So when I engage with a client, we do a 12 month contract. And the contract is a one page deal. And the thing that I think makes my approach unique is I don’t get paid until we get to the end of the contract. And the client is able to determine we achieved the goals. So I put my compensation into the process. What I require out of the client is two things. First, we have to have some very clear goals. And we need to establish those goals and they need to be meaningful. And then we need to have an action plan. My action plan is very simple. We have a coaching conversation every other week. Between the time we have our last coaching session, the time we have a next there’s an action step, at least one that the person who’s been coached needs to do. It may be the very simplest thing like one that I love is go on the midnight shift. And they’re like, why? Because they don’t know who you are. Go there. They’re your employees. Go and don’t tell anybody you’re coming. Just show up. And they’re like at midnight? No, they take a lunch break, because you don’t know this at four. So how about you get there, three, go into the lunch room and set out at a table. Do not tell the night supervision you’re coming. Don’t tell your people you’re going because they’ll tell the night supervision you’re coming. And you don’t want to clean up. You want to see what it actually looks like on a night of a normal night. I said now the first time you show up, they’re gonna call the police because they think you’re a stranger who broken into the company. They’re like, Yeah, are you serious? I sit Yeah, you have a bit there. What was the last time you were there? And there’s this pregnant pause while they tried to fabricate a date they got like suck. Oh, not the last two or three years Right? No. Okay. So so guess what? That your action stuff. And of course when we talk, I go, did you go in the night shift that third shift? And of course if you say absolutely then we talk about the experience because it is one it’s a revealing and I Tell these guys, I tell everybody that does this, nobody talks to you the first time you’re there, they don’t know why you’re there, they’re afraid. The third time you show up is always the charm. And remember, you continue to show up unannounced, you just go in, and you actually dress like a human being leave your tile, put on a pair of jeans, and go sit down at the workers table. And when the supervising comes in, tell him to leave. So that you can have a real conversation with your employees about the third shift, because the search shifts where all the interesting behavior takes place. I said, so that’s the deal. We have that discussion. Now. The second possibility is you’re going to tell me you didn’t go. Because there’s always a reason not to get up at midnight believe. And I’m not going to be happy about that. And I want to make sure you understand I’m not going to be happy, you know why? My skins in the game. And every time you make a commitment to me, I am entitled to hold you accountable for the commitment. Now, if you’re not going to do it, tell me I’m not going to do that. Okay, what are you going to do, because you have to do something to get better, there has to be an action step. Otherwise, I see no commitment on your part. But if you’ve committed that you made a commitment to yourself, and you made a commitment to your partner, B. And I will hold you accountable to that commitment. That’s hard work, by the way, give people credit who go through the coaching process.
Tyler Martin 41:28
So on that note, a performance coach, is it usually around business owners that are growing their business? Or what what are these types of performance things that you would help someone with?
Paul Glover 41:37
No, absolutely, it’s normally, it’s normally successful people who are trying to become more successful, who are trying to overcome whatever blind spots, and self sabotaging behavior exists, and it always does. And no one has told them what it is. So as a coach, you’re required to be a truth teller, you know, to this, speak truth to speak truth to power, you know how difficult that is for a person who’s employed by this guy, okay, your jobs on the line. Now, you can say the same thing about being a coach, but I tell people, I’m okay with that. That’s what you’re paying me to do. That’s what I’m going to do. And we’re going to have a conversation about your blind spots. And by the way, I will be able to tell you what they are. Not because I have the supernatural ability, I’m going to ask the people that report to you what they are. And they’re going to tell me they do every time it’s remarkable Tyler, I can sit down in a focus group of complete strangers and say, here’s who I am. Here’s what I’m here to do. By the way, I promise you anonymity as a team, individuals will not be called out. Now if you don’t trust the guy you’re sitting next to, all you have to do is contact me on your own extraordinary what people will tell you about the company, their team leader and the boss, the owner, like, I then take that information, I put it into a nice little package. And I go, You know what, we just did the 360 review on top of the focus group. And let me tell you what it said about you as a communicator. And I always like to start with that one, because that’s an easy one. Every boss believes they’re a great communicator. And that’s because they believe in the power of telepathy. They believe that they think it, you hear it, what always comes out inevitably is you suck as a communicator, you are so unclear. We have to ask each other after a meeting what you said, consensus, we decide that was the best age. i That’s true. It’s just the way it is. And of course, they’re shocked by this. It’s like, Well, that can’t be possible, because I’m a great communicator. No, no one knows what the mission or the purpose of the vision is. And by the way, the last meeting when you said you wanted them to do something, no one knew what that was. They all guessed. So say. So once, once they hear that this information is not coming from me. It’s coming from the people who actually do the work for them. It starts to open their eyes to the fact that they are blind to certain things. And I tell them, the problem with with being aware is that you now have to do something about it. Because if you ask people for the truth, and they tell you and you don’t do anything about it, don’t ask them again, because they’re going to tell it again. So that’s our process, and it’s painful. I tell people, it’s unnecessarily hard, but it’s painful. It is not easy. And once you face your blind spots, and you recognize your pattern of self sabotage, then we can start working on eliminating those things.
Tyler Martin 44:46
Yeah, sure. sounds powerful. You know, one of my questions which you already brought up in the beginning, but I want to revisit it is you have a statement around. You’re not the guy to hire for a life coach, but you’re the guy to hire for performance coach and I think totally understand that made me laugh that when I first read it, it makes me laugh now.
Paul Glover 45:05
Well, and again, I found that out of the people who contact me, only about 20% decide that they really want to go through the process. And you know, it sounds fantastic to say, well, I’ve got 100% of my, my compensation a risk, because that’s how much I value, the process and my ability to help you. Because you’ve set the goals, we just set them together. And if I think they’re unrealistic, I’m going to see you’re not going to be able to accomplish that. I also found that it takes 12 months. Transformation is not a quick process. It requires commitment, time and action. And as you change your behavior, you change everything else. But the clause in there that I point out to everybody is, if you engage, and you quit, you pay me the total 12 months, I don’t care if you quit in month one, but you quit in month 11 I’m locking you in either either you commit, and most people like whoo, you know, I like the part where, where you’re willing to put your compensation at risk. But you really want me to 12 months when we bite night. Yeah, I do. That’s what we’re gonna get results.
Tyler Martin 46:15
Right. So hey, I want to switch gears as we’re about to wrap up. Sure. Do you have a book that you’re reading now, or just one of your all time favorite books that you can share? I’d love to walk away with something that you enjoy.
Paul Glover 46:25
I’m not gonna be able to recovery. It’s a shame that I don’t it’s called, it’s your
Tyler Martin 46:29
ship. It’s your ship. Okay.
Paul Glover 46:32
It was written by a retired admiral, and I apologize to him for not remembering his name. But he took over the worst ship in the United States Navy. And within 12 months, he turned it around and rang it ranked in the top 10% of based on their performance within 12 months. And the way he did it was It wasn’t his ship. It was the cruise ship. And see To me that is the that is absolutely what you do.
Tyler Martin 47:03
And that’s powerful. I’ll put I’ll look it up. Of course, I’ll put it in the show notes. Book, the name of the author. That’s an awesome one. I got one more fun one. Before we wrap up, you got a ton of knowledge almost feel like every question I asked, you could have been a whole show in itself. And we didn’t really do justice to the questions. But having said that, is there something that you could give us a tip, whether it be a personal tip or a business tip that we can apply in our lives, and hopefully it will make us better? We apply it? Okay,
Paul Glover 47:30
I first by looking up right now I’ve got eight and a half pieces of paper with stuff written on them, right that actually apply to me. But I believe that everybody needs to know what their purposes. And I’m a numerologist the number to me is always three. And I can tell you what mine are in. One is my purpose is to satisfy curiosity. It’s also to generate potential. And the third thing is to make others smile. And I operate off of those. And I believe that everyone needs to sit down and spend the time to reflect on what their purposes and they need to write it down. And then they need to post it where like I said, I’m looking up at mine right now, where you see it every day, so that you live your purpose. If you can’t figure that out, you are not going to be satisfied with your professional life. You may make enough money, but you’re not going to have anything other than that. Because your purpose has got to guide you do your professional life and hopefully in your in your personal life. Because at the end of the day, you need to know did you fulfill your purpose. And if you have it in front of you, you can make that assessment. Most of the people at the end of the day are happy they survived. I think the row actually had a quote about that, that I often feel that people who are working are living lives of quiet desperation. They are so unhappy with their with their work life, how many hours we spend at work, how much of our energy and time and passion is is consumed by the job. make meaningful and if it’s not meaningful, if you can’t see your purpose there, think about your job differently. And I’ll shut up. You’ve got me You’ve turned on another faucet here. But always use the example. So okay. The new head of NASA, this must be 15 years ago, new head of NASA is touring the building. And he sees a cleaning lady pushing a cart of cleaning equipment and it’s apparent. She’s janitorial. And he walks up to her because he’s introduced himself to everyone and he introduces himself to her. And he says my name is so and so. And I’m this he says and he looks at her and she says who are you? So what do you do hear thinking? Of course she’s gonna say, you know, I cleaned the job. She says I helped put people on the moon. Now I actually get choked up with that response because there’s someone who has had a purpose. And it wasn’t created the bathroom. But the concept was they had connected their job and doing it the right way to that purpose. And I’m like, that is so powerful. But every leader needs for every employee to know the purpose of the organization, and to connect their job, their effort to that. Now, here’s one more Brazil, trash collection, and you have people standing for eight hours and a conveyor. And what they’re doing is they’re separating the recyclables from the garbage, same questions asked, What are you doing? What’s your job? saving the environment? Had nothing to do with trash, if you can make that commandment? And if you can’t, I asked, I asked you do you know your purpose? If you don’t know yours, don’t expect anyone else to know the purpose. But once you know your purpose, then it’s your job to communicate every day in every interaction Barna anyway.
Tyler Martin 51:01
I mean, you said the word is powerful. It’s a great, great thing you’re illustrating there is just how people are connecting the bigger picture to what they’re doing. And that’s, that’s awesome. You have so much wisdom to share. Thank you. I’ll put in the show notes. Paul clover, coaching comm Paul clover, coaching.com. That’s where the audience would go. Is there anywhere else you’d like to send folks or you’d like them to visit or reach out to you? Any other sources?
Paul Glover 51:25
Well, you know, I make this offer first, I appreciate you and what you do I seriously, I could not be, obviously, I want to do the talking. I don’t want to ask the intelligent questions. But if you’re not, if you’re not asking the right questions, obviously, what you get out of me, is nothing of value to your audience. And I appreciate the fact that you know your audience and you’re asking the questions that hopefully give them value. Because of that anyone who does reach out to me and it’s my, my email is Paul at Paul Glover coaching comm gets a free copy of my book sent to them.
Tyler Martin 51:59
Awesome, that would be great. Okay, I’ll put that in the show notes too. And, once again, I can’t thank you enough. You’re just a blast to talk with. And it’s part of why I enjoy doing this. I get to talk with people that are incredibly knowledgeable, have had a great career now are sharing their stories and helping people. So thank you so much, Paul.
Paul Glover 52:19
Tyler, thank you very much for the opportunity not only to talk to you but to your audience. Awesome. Take care.
That’s all for this episode of Think business with Tyler. But we have plenty more resources to help you in your pursuit of business excellence on our website at think tyler.com If you’d like to be featured in a future episode of the show, feel free to reach out to us on social media at think underscore Tyler, we look forward to helping you think life think success and think business